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Author Topic:   Dan Ford's revised book
tom pandolfi
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posted 08-21-2007 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tom pandolfi   Click Here to Email tom pandolfi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Would like to hear comments on Dan Ford's revised book when it is read..
"In this second edition of his 'revisionist' history masterpiece, Daniel Ford tightens up the tale, corrects a few errors, and adds dramatic new details."
http://seacoastnh.com/The_Arts/Book_of_the_Week/Flying_Tigers/
Thumbs up or thumbs down???

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Lincoln
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posted 08-21-2007 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lincoln   Click Here to Email Lincoln     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I bought the Original, I don't think I'm gonna shell out extra for a Revision of teh Revision.

Who died that he felt he could spill dirt?

I think he has no shame, too bad he's given more credit than the guys who were actually there for knowing the story of what went on.

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Chuck Baisden
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posted 08-22-2007 08:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chuck Baisden   Click Here to Email Chuck Baisden     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tom pandolfi:
Would like to hear comments on Dan Ford's revised book when it is read..
"In this second edition of his 'revisionist' history masterpiece, Daniel Ford tightens up the tale, corrects a few errors, and adds dramatic new details."
http://seacoastnh.com/The_Arts/Book_of_the_Week/Flying_Tigers/
Thumbs up or thumbs down???

Not the least bit interested as I did not buy or read his 1st book. His brochure was enough for me.

Chuck B.

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FrankL
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posted 08-22-2007 03:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FrankL   Click Here to Email FrankL     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
His first book was shameful, I am sure his second will be just as bad. FrankL

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BillC
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posted 08-22-2007 04:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BillC   Click Here to Email BillC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sure it would be quite useful...if your lining the bottom of a hamster cage.

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tom pandolfi
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posted 08-22-2007 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tom pandolfi   Click Here to Email tom pandolfi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am interested to see if he retracts any of his "findings" from his first book or finds "new" information that sheds a different light on the AVG....you all know what I mean!

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Jo Neal
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posted 08-22-2007 08:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jo Neal   Click Here to Email Jo Neal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tom,
You're joking, right?
Jo

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JB1956
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posted 08-26-2007 08:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JB1956   Click Here to Email JB1956     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let me preface my comments by saying that I have the utmost respect for the AVG and their role in history during the early days of the Second World War. I read Ford's book and initially and for quite some time I was somewhat irritated by a revisionist look at a heroic fighting unit. I didn't understand why he would try to diminish the accomplishments of the Three Squadrons. When I thought about it another way, I think he has a lot of respect for the AVG but maybe during the heat of the battle or the Fog of War things maybe are not quite as clear. If I remember the Japanese claims of air to air victories over the Flying Tigers were extreme and could not possibly have been true, there just were'nt that many flyable aircraft. I've always wondered about Robert Neale's comments on the back of the cover " A very well-documented history of the AVG with great attention to detail." But I think also RT Smith described it as "Bull S***".

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Jo Neal
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posted 08-26-2007 03:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jo Neal   Click Here to Email Jo Neal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bob Neale admitted later that when he was asked to endorse Ford's book, he wrote that statement without ever having read any of the manuscript. He always regretted having done that, because he realized what he had said was not true about that book.

Jo

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avgbob
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posted 08-26-2007 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for avgbob   Click Here to Email avgbob     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's funny that you say that, Jo; I tell people about that, as I have been envolved in publishing several books, and I find that it is true with so many books, it just gets endorsed without the endorsee reading it.

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JACK COOK
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posted 08-26-2007 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JACK COOK   Click Here to Email JACK COOK     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I received a early copy and am just a few chapters into it. So far the not one single negative spoken and it fact some
very position remarks about Chuck B.

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Lincoln
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posted 08-26-2007 08:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lincoln   Click Here to Email Lincoln     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You're Kidding?

What about Erik, any change in his writing about or mention of Erik. Erik really gave him what for on Dan Fords Forums. My interest in the Flying Tiges started young, but after reading "Claire Chenault and the American Volunteer Group" I found Dan Ford's forums on the Internet. I wouldn't have found this place had not Erik Shilling come to Dan Ford's forum to argue against the revisionism.

At least from Erik I got leads to other avenues to help round out the information I was getting, so that I wasn't getting what was entirely filtered through Ford's forums.

I don't think he and Erik thought fondly of each other. I would be surprised if "Cubdriver" mentioned him kindly in the book.

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Brad Smith
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posted 08-27-2007 08:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brad Smith   Click Here to Email Brad Smith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have read Dan Ford’s updated and revised edition of Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and His American Volunteer Group, 1941-1942 (Harper Collins/Smithsonian Books, 2007) and have found it to be much improved over the original version published in 1991 and the seven subsequent printings published with corrections and additions from 1992 to 2003. I have stated in a previous post to this forum that I believed portions of Ford’s earlier editions of Flying Tigers were “unnecessarily provocative”. I found most (but not all) of that confrontational language has been removed from this revised edition. What remains is an excellent history that, in my view, will help to preserve the accomplishments of the AVG for future generations. The book not only tells the story of the AVG, but tells the story in the context of the larger war. With regard to what has probably been the most controversial part of his book -- the challenge to the number of aircraft destroyed by the AVG -- I wish there were more statements of the type, “None of these victories can be confirmed in Japanese records.” (p. 264) rather than “…for a total of six Japanese fighters supposedly destroyed that Friday morning” (p. 169) and “In truth, the 64th Sentai lost only three Hayabusas that morning…” (p. 246). Still, looking at the events in Burma and China in 1941 and 1942 from various perspectives is a valuable exercise and a much richer reading experience than looking at history from only a single perspective (usually the winner’s). I also like the way Ford’s new book is integrated into his web site (www.flyingtigersbook.com), which provides additional information for those who are interested. I can, without reservation, recommend Dan Ford’s Flying Tigers to readers of this forum.

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JACK COOK
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posted 08-27-2007 10:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JACK COOK   Click Here to Email JACK COOK     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dan Ford gave Erik the biggest compliment of all when he credited him with being the catalist for him learning how to fly when he was well into his 60s.
I agree with Brad regarding Dan's webpage. It's full of great info and more facts and figures than any other site on the web. Just lacking in photos has are all.

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tom pandolfi
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posted 08-27-2007 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tom pandolfi   Click Here to Email tom pandolfi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Brad...that's all I wanted to hear....an honest opinion on this revision.

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Capt. Lou
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posted 09-09-2007 01:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Capt. Lou   Click Here to Email Capt. Lou     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I will read Ford's new book and do my best to arrive at an objective opinion based on the work itself. My opinion on the first book will remain unchanged.

I also do respect the reasoned views on this book written by other members of the forum.

------------------
Capt. Lou

http://www.wreckhunters.net

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JACK COOK
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posted 09-10-2007 08:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JACK COOK   Click Here to Email JACK COOK     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Brad's review was complete, detailed, impartial and honest. How it couldn't be the final is beyond me. I don't know anyone who covers all four of those areas. I enjoyed it very much and learned a great deal. But, I'm certainly not the final word!

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JACK COOK
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posted 09-10-2007 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JACK COOK   Click Here to Email JACK COOK     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Barret Tillman left a review on amazon.com which is worthy of repeating....
As a professional author, I can attest that few of us get to rewrite a book, making use of 'new' material. (There seems a law of the universe that as soon as a book hits the street, that hard-to-find bit of info finally turns up!) Fortunately for the cause of aviation history, Dan Ford is one of 'the few.'
"Ford's definitive history of the AVG caused a sensation when first published, mainly because he dared challenge the conventional wisdom, not to mention the mythology attending the Flying Tigers. With passage of enough time, the worth of his initial effort became even more apparent, and even some of his critics within the AVG began acknowledging that he got far more right than wrong.
"Apart from new material, the second edition retains the strengths of the first: honest scholarship and good writing. Ford clearly admires his subjects, but succeeds in telling the human side of the legendary airmen and the ground staff that 'kept 'em flying.' Claire Chennault's faults and foibles lend credence to the overall worth of this fine effort, which is unlikely ever to be surpassed." -- Barrett Tillman

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BillC
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posted 09-10-2007 09:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BillC   Click Here to Email BillC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Who is Barret Tillman, and what are his credentials to pass judgement on the AVG? I'm happy that some have found opinions that match their own, but dan ford's book can be described as nothing but a 'hit piece' on the AVG. While I'm sure there is much accurate information contained in his work, it's focus can only be described as that of diminishing the AVG and it's record in a mean spirited manner. To take the fragmentary records of the Japanese as gospel, while doubting all AVG claims seems to me, to betray an agenda that's become all too familiar in recent years. That of tearing down this country's heroes, and 're-educating' us that America just isn't as great as we believe it to be. I would be interested to know which AVG members have acknowleged dan ford's opinions. How does Mr. Tillman arrive at this conclusion? Mr. ford's book, in my opinion, is a literary version of a Jerry Springer show. One that seeks out scandal and sensationalism. I doubt that any of us would like to see our biographies characterized by the actions of our impetuous youth. dan ford's book doesn't seek to 'humanize' the AVG, it only sought to diminish them in our eyes. A disgraceful motive for a book on American veterans. In my humble opinion.

[This message has been edited by BillC (edited 09-10-2007).]

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JACK COOK
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posted 09-11-2007 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JACK COOK   Click Here to Email JACK COOK     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's your answer.....
Barrett Tillman (b. 1948) is an American author who specializes in naval and aviation topics in addition to fiction and technical writing.

Tillman's most influential book to date is On Yankee Station (1987), written with the late John B. Nichols. A critical appraisal of naval aviation in the Vietnam War, it was added to the US Air Force and Marine Corps professional reading lists and became a "reality check" for various Navy and Marine squadrons.
Early life
Born a fourth-generation Oregonian, Tillman was raised on the family wheat and cattle ranch. His younger brothers include a breeder of exotic animals and a Rhodes Scholar. In high school he was an Eagle Scout, won two state titles as a regimental drummer, and was a champion speaker and debater. Tillman was first published in 1964 at age 15 and graduated from the University of Oregon in 1971 with a bachelor’s degree in journalism.
Like his father, a Navy trained pilot in World War II, Tillman developed an early passion for aviation and learned to fly at age 16. Over the next several years he flew a variety of vintage and historic aircraft, including a pre-WW II Navy trainer and a restored dive-bomber. The latter became the subject of his first book, The Dauntless Dive Bomber of World War II, published in 1976. It established the format for many subsequent books, operational histories of U.S. Navy aircraft.
Tillman worked as a freelance writer until 1982 when he founded Champlin Fighter Museum Press in Mesa, Arizona, publishing out-of-print and new titles on military aviation.
In 1986 he moved to San Diego to become managing editor of The Hook, quarterly journal of the Tailhook Association. He remained in that position for three years before deciding to focus full time to writing fiction. His first novel was published in June 1990. Warriors depicted a Mideast air war and became an immediate best seller when Iraq invaded Kuwait two months later.
Tillman's next two novels appeared in 1992: The Sixth Battle, (written with his brother) which captured a wide following among computer war gamers; and Dauntless, intended as the first in a trilogy. It was followed by Hellcats, nominated as military novel of the year in 1996. He has also published original fiction in the Stephen Coonts anthologies, Combat and Victory.
Tillman remains active as a magazine writer. He is a regular contributor to The Hook, Flight Journal, and several firearms publications. He has also reported from Africa for Soldier of Fortune magazine.
Published works
Nonfiction
Jimmy Doolittle: The First 80 Years (1976)
The Dauntless Dive-Bomber of World War II (1976)
Hellcat: the F6F in World War II (1979)
Corsair: the F4U in World War II and Korea (1979)
TBF-TBM Avenger at War (1979, re-released 1991)
MiG Master: Story of the F-8 Crusader (1980, second edition 1990)
Wildcat: the F4F in World War II (1983, second edition 1990)
On Yankee Station: the Naval Air War Over Vietnam (1987) (with CDR John B. Nichols)
Sun Downers: VF-11 in World War II (1993)
Carrier Battle in the Philippine Sea (1994)
Pushing the Envelope: The Career of Test Pilot Marion Carl (1994) (with MGEN Marion E. Carl, USMC (Ret.))
Wildcat Aces of World War II (1995)
Wildcats to Tomcats: The Tailhook Navy (1995) (with CAPTs W.M. Schirra, R.L. Cormier & P.R. Wood, USN (Ret.))
Carrier Air War: World War II in Original Color (1996) (with Robert L. Lawson)
Reissued as World War II U.S. Navy Air Combat, 2002)
Hellcat Aces of World War II (1996)
Warbird Tech: Vought F4U Corsair (1997)
U.S. Navy Fighter Squadrons and Aces of World War II (1997)
SB2C Helldiver Units of World War II (1997)
U.S. Navy Fighters of World War II (1998) (with R.L. Lawson)
SBD Dauntless Units of World War II (1998)
TBD Avenger Units of World War II (2000)
The Complete Guide to AR-15 Accuracy (2000) (with Derrick Martin)
U.S. Navy Dive and Torpedo Bombers (2001) (with R.L. Lawson)
Above & Beyond: The Aviation Medals of Honor (2002)
The Alpha Bravo Delta Guide to the U.S. Air Force (2003)
Brassey's D-Day Encyclopedia (2004)
Clash of the Carriers: The True Story of the Marianas Turkey Shoot of World War II (2005)
Heroes: Army Recipients of the Medal of Honor (2006)
LeMay (2007)
What We Need: Extravagance and Shortages in America's Military (2007)
Chapters in non-fiction works:

R.L. Lawson, ed. History of U.S. Naval Air Power (1985)
Saburô Sakai Samurai! (1991)
Steve Coonts, ed. War in the Air (1996)
Jack Sweetmen, ed. Great American Naval Battles (1998)
Hill Goodspeed, ed. U.S. Naval Aviation (2001)
Tom Clancy series, revised chapter Fighter Wing (2004)
Walter Boyne, ed. Today's Best Military Writing (2004)
Introductions to:

Another Country by Jeff Cooper (2005)
Fire Works by Jeff Cooper (2005)
To Ride, Shoot Straight & Speak the Truth by Jeff Cooper (2005)

Fiction
Warriors (1990)
The Sixth Battle (1992) (with John L. Tillman) Detailed Book Review
Dauntless (1992)
Hellcats: A Novel of the Pacific War (1996)
"Skyhawks Forever." Combat (2001) (Steve Coonts, ed., et al)
"I Relieve You, Sir." A Date Which Will Live in Infamy (2001) (Brian Thomsen and Martin Greenberg, eds., et al)
"Flame On Tarawa." Victory (2003) (Steve Coonts, ed., et al)
Pandora’s Legion (2007) with Harold Coyle

Awards
Tillman has received five writing awards including the second Admiral Radford Award for Naval History and Literature and is an honorary member of three Navy squadrons. He has been honored by the Air Force Historical Foundation, the American Fighter Aces Association, and remains the youngest recipient of the Tailhook Association’s lifetime achievement award.

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BillC
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posted 09-12-2007 05:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BillC   Click Here to Email BillC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice credentials, but I didn't see one listing referencing the AVG. So that seems to be lacking for someone characterizing the AVG story as 'mythology'. Regardless, I don't think that your constant cheerleading and promoting of dan ford's works and opinons belongs on this forum. He is much disliked by the AVG members, as they feel he has slandered them by his slanted interpretations of the facts as he constructs them. He used an invitation to an AVG reunion to try to dig for dirt for his publication and began making enemies then. I'm aware of a rather nasty e-mail you sent to a ranking member of this forum making a slanderous comment about a certain AVG pilot 'buying' victories from British fliers. That, along with your sale of AVG photos for profit does not show that you have much respect for the AVG. They seem to be more of a 'vehicle' for your own purposes and agendas. Since you are so enamored of Mr. ford, you should devote all your time to his website where I'm sure you'll be right at home and everyone will agree with you. Many of us are sick and tired of hearing about dan ford on this site. The promotion of ford is not the function of this forum. He is an irritation to most. You can post a hundred flattering comments and reviews of him, but he will never be thought of kindly by the AVG and it's supporters. Of course, I suppose we're not as 'enlightened' as those that purport to know the 'real truth'...even though they weren't there.

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tom pandolfi
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posted 09-12-2007 07:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tom pandolfi   Click Here to Email tom pandolfi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My original question and intent was to get a review of his revision leaving past/present emotions out of it. I found his first book full of good information and a reference guide even though I did not agree with everything in it. In the revision I also looked at his material and also find it a good reference guide and also get a bigger picture of the AVG and the overall war. The responses have been honest but to much past emotion and the need to attack others is very unjust and not a place on this forum.

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JACK COOK
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posted 09-12-2007 07:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JACK COOK   Click Here to Email JACK COOK     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Bill,
It was my understanding that personal attacks weren't allowed of this forum. But, maybe an exception for me ya think? If you didn't want to know who Barrett Tillman was and what his credentials were you shouldn't have asked the question. Maybe you could asked him more details concerning his opinions personally. You can write to him at btillman63@hotmail.com .
Has for Dan Ford I never met him and really don't think I'm promoting his work(s) being I've read exactly 1 1/2 of his books. The purpose of this thread was to seek opinions about the new edition of his book which is what I've done. I'm sorry if that's bothered you (actually I'm not sorry) but you'll get over it. Has for selling AVG photos for profit on ebay you really need to get your facts straight. First of all I do sell some pictures on ebay and some but not many are AVG. 95% are either from the National Archives or from my personal collection of originals I've worked nearly 30 years acquiring. Let's figure out the profit thing. A $4 photo minus cost of printing, listing fees, final value fees, paypal fees and the % of what's left over going to the FTA (yes Bill I said FTA!)in addition to time involved printing and mailing hasn't bought me that P-51 I've been dreaming about. Especially since I've sold maybe 4-5 AVG relately photos in the past 6 months on ebay. I think your figures are a bit off. I've shared more AVG pictures on this forum than I've ever sold on ebay my friend.
Has for "a rather nasty e-mail you sent to a ranking member of this forum making a slanderous comment about a certain AVG pilot 'buying' victories from British fliers'" I not in the habit of sending 'nasty' emails or slandering anyone although I've received some woppers from forum participants & administrators in addition to being the subject of back channel emailings among members of the "FTA Family".
Bill, you seem more to be more or a cheerleader and a worshiper than I could ever be so if that makes you happy so be it. If attacking me on this forum makes you feel good also then all the better. Has for my respecting the AVG, I most certainly do. Their achievements and heroism can't be denied. The FTA is not the AVG though.
My advice to those out there is to read the revision of Ford's book. If you don't want to buy it, then check it out from the library. Form you own opinions rather than listening to those who haven't read it themselves. Your right to do just that is one of the benefits of living in a democracy.

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BillC
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posted 09-12-2007 08:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BillC   Click Here to Email BillC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's obvious that you feel that ford is the final word on the AVG...I personally read the e-mail that you deny sending. It was forwarded to me by the forum member, and I still have it...If the administrators find anything they feel requires editing, they are welcome to do so.

[This message has been edited by BillC (edited 09-12-2007).]

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JACK COOK
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posted 09-12-2007 09:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JACK COOK   Click Here to Email JACK COOK     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've traded numerous emails with the forum admistrators Bill. But, I don't believe I've slandered anyone Bill. Although my mother was compared to a prostitute by one!

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BillC
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posted 09-13-2007 01:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BillC   Click Here to Email BillC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can not comment on your mother, nor would I care to do so. But, the person that forwarded the aforementioned e-mail has impeccable credentials. I do not doubt her in any way, shape, or form. I find it highly contradictary that you trade in the AVG legend while subscribing to a point of view that undermines that same legend. You either believe the story of the AVG...or you don't.....I would be happily described as a 'worshiper' of the AVG..,and all American combat veterans. Better that than a detractor of our veterans. The AVG volunteers subscribed to a program that was instituted by FDR to keep China in the war and further American interests. That they should be the subject of ridicule is beyond the pale. Yes, they recieved higher pay than if they stayed in the US military, but what is it worth to risk your life? They served their country's interest at a crucial time. They provided the only defense against Japanese agression. Had they not done so, China may well have been knocked out of the war, allowing hundreds of thousands of Japanese to move against allied forces, creating untold casualties. Their service can be compared to that of a high school team taking on Notre Dame...and kicking their butts. I will never be ashamed of being a 'worshiper' of the AVG...or any American veteran.

[This message has been edited by BillC (edited 09-13-2007).]

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JACK COOK
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posted 09-13-2007 12:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JACK COOK   Click Here to Email JACK COOK     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I congradualte you Bill upon finding someone with "impeciable credentials". I had no idea such a person even existed on this planet. You keep preaching about the "AVG Legend". Do you know what a legend is by definition?
LEGEND: An unverified story handed down from earlier times, especially one popularly believed to be historical. I do not subscribe to any legend theory.
You also seem to think that the AVG were the only ones fighting the Japanese early on in the Pacific war. You seem to forget the British, Dutch, Chinese, Philippinos, Americans, Aussies ect were all had their backs against the wall and were fighting for their lives and their country's survival. Has I earlier stated "their achievements and heroism can't be denied" but to act like the AVG did it all on their own is far from accurate. If you really want be be a worshiper go right ahead if that makes you happy. But, most vets I know would be embarassed by that. BTW Bill, I'm a 'American Veteran' with 8 years of service including OP Desert Storm. Please don't worship me. Somehow, I doubt if that will be a problem.

BTW thank you Tom for the comment....
"the need to attack others is very unjust and not a place on this forum."

[This message has been edited by JACK COOK (edited 09-13-2007).]

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Chuck Baisden
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posted 09-13-2007 01:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chuck Baisden   Click Here to Email Chuck Baisden     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JACK COOK:
I congradualte you Bill upon finding someone with "impeciable credentials". I had no idea such a person even existed on this planet. You keep preaching about the "AVG Legend". Do you know what a legend is by definition?
LEGEND: An unverified story handed down from earlier times, especially one popularly believed to be historical. I do not subscribe to any legend theory.
You also seem to think that the AVG were the only ones fighting the Japanese early on in the Pacific war. You seem to forget the British, Dutch, Chinese, Philippinos, Americans, Aussies ect were all had their backs against the wall and were fighting for their lives and their country's survival. Has I earlier stated "their achievements and heroism can't be denied" but to act like the AVG did it all on their own is far from accurate. If you really want be be a worshiper go right ahead if that makes you happy. But, most vets I know would be embarassed by that. BTW Bill, I'm a 'American Veteran' with 8 years of service including OP Desert Storm. Please don't worship me. Somehow, I doubt if that will be a problem.

BTW thank you Tom for the comment....
"the need to attack others is very unjust and not a place on this forum."

[This message has been edited by JACK COOK (edited 09-13-2007).]


I think it time to stop this nonsense as it changes no ones mind. Reminds me of two Missouri mules fighting over a carrot.
Chuck Baisden

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BillC
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posted 09-13-2007 09:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BillC   Click Here to Email BillC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Amen, Mr. Baisden. Time to close this thread.

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worldraft
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posted 09-13-2007 09:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for worldraft   Click Here to Email worldraft     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm in total agrement Chuck

------------------
Dimensional drafting of any technical drawing you may have. Your Ideal or a reproduction.

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BillC
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posted 09-14-2007 12:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BillC   Click Here to Email BillC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mr. Cook, This will be my last posting on this subject. The countries you mentioned had no function in the defense of China. You seem to change the subject to suit your needs. The AVG mission was the defense of China. Get over yourself....Has?

[This message has been edited by BillC (edited 09-14-2007).]

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tom pandolfi
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posted 09-14-2007 07:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tom pandolfi   Click Here to Email tom pandolfi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ONCE AND FOR ALL....when is this going to end......Bill C???????
I posted the first question and let this be the last reply.

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Chuck Baisden
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posted 09-14-2007 08:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chuck Baisden   Click Here to Email Chuck Baisden     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tom pandolfi:
ONCE AND FOR ALL....when is this going to end......Bill C???????
I posted the first question and let this be the last reply.

THIS IS THE END OF THIS THREAD AND ANY FURTHER INPUT WILL BE DELETED
Chuck Baisden

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